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At The Sunday Paper, Stephanie reports, writes, and edits news stories. She also writes a weekly column about Atlanta's City Hall, the Atlanta Police Department, and crime, as well as government in general. She has appeared on MSNBC's "Hardball with Chris Matthews," where she debated Pat Buchanan, Air America's "The Lionel Show," where she debated Nancy Skinner, and the Australian national radio show, "Dads on the Air." Her blogs and columns have been cited in numerous publications around the world. She is also the founder of the Jackalope Party, a political party for fiscally conservative, socially liberal Americans. She collects National Geographics from before the fall of the USSR and her favorite movie is the brilliant Hitchcock-like French film, "He loves me, he loves me not." She deeply loves too many books to name them all, but among her favorites are A.A. Long's "Epictetus: A Stoic and Socratic Guide to Life," Baruch Spinoza's "The Ethics," Michael White's "Isaac Newton: The Last Sorcerer," James Connor's "Kepler's Witch," Simon Winchester's "The Professor and the Madman," Owen Gingerich's "The Book Nobody Read," Russell Shorto's "Descartes' Bones," D.T. Max's "The Family That Couldn't Sleep," and Matthew Stewart's "The Courtier and the Heretic." Email her at stephanieramage@sundaypaper.com.
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ATLANTA CITY COUNCIL, THE POLICE, THE MAYOR AND A BASEBALL BAT


I stood outside the City Council Chamber yesterday at Atlanta City Hall with about 60 police officers and I heard Councilman H. Lamar Willis tell them, with a straight face, “The city has never had any money.”

I do not usually bite my tongue and I did not do so then.

“No money? No money?” I asked. “You had almost $30 million you spent on the Brand Atlanta campaign. How many police officers would that have paid for?”

As a matter of fact, the Brand Atlanta campaign, Mayor Shirley Franklin’s advertising campaign that was meant to attract more conventioneers and tourists to Atlanta with clunky slogans and stilted hip-hop jingles, cost $8 million in tax revenue. That’s in sales taxes generated by taxi cab fares and hotel rooms. It cost another $12 million in funding raised from private and corporate sources. It was originally budgeted at $28 million, but City Hall finally cut the cord on Brand Atlanta last March when it failed to produce results.

So, $8 million in tax dollars, especially if those tax dollars come from out of town, isn’t much. But budgeting, whether in my house or City Hall, is a matter of priorities. What if that money had been slated for the police instead? When Mayor Franklin cut the hours of police last December, the city’s chief operating officer said the cuts would save the city $6 million. When the city cuts insurance coverage for police in the Fiscal Year 2010 budget, the move is expected to save the city $2 million.

So, there’s the $8 million in tax funding the mayor and City Council blew on the Brand Atlanta Campaign. It could have preempted the police furloughs and cuts to the officers’ insurance if it hadn’t gone into the pockets of public relations people and hip hop artists.

Priorities were the theme of yesterday’s contentious budget meeting between the local chapter of the International Brotherhood of Police Officers and the City Council. Between Councilman C.T. Martin’s race-baiting and Councilwoman Felicia Moore’s write-more-traffic-tickets approach to revenue generation, I hardly knew where to begin in writing this blog.

IBPO Local 623 President Scott Kreher not only enumerated the problems with the police budget for the council, he actually brought them two ideas for new streams of revenue: 1) Enforcing the city’s business license law—actually checking to make sure businesses have licenses and fining unlicensed businesses accordingly and 2) A city-run towing enterprise. These would bring in millions for the city, he says.

Kreher began his presentation like this: “At the end of this administration, we kind of felt it was important to look back from 2002 to the present and see what Mayor Franklin’s administration has done for the police department…are we better than we were in 2002 or worse? We believe we are a lot worse.”

When Mayor Franklin came into office, she promised the police officers that she would raise their salaries by 40 percent and that she would hire 2,000 officers by 2007.

“Instead, our officers have seen a loss of about 40 percent in their income thanks to the loss of step pay and the increase in insurance costs,” Kreher said.

Additionally:
  • The city stopped reimbursing officers for their tuition at Georgia State University about a year and a half ago when the city worked a property deal with the university and no longer had the money to reimburse for tuition.
  • Seven years ago, two independent assessments of the police department resulted in a strong recommendation that a career ladder be made available in the department. To this day, no such career path appears among the APD’s policies.
  • No other major city has furloughed its officers, but Atlanta, even though it is overrun with crime, has.

“Now, the city needs $56 million” to balance its budget, so the mayor has proposed a 3 millage-point tax, Kreher said, but “Giornelli told us that the furloughs of the police would save $6 million. That’s not fair. It’s not right to say you’re raising taxes to end the furloughs and the public deserves to know the truth.”

He also couldn’t help but notice that the city settled a $7.5 million lawsuit with the International Brotherhood of Police Officers in November 2008 and the following month the mayor cut the officers’ pay by 10 percent via the furloughs. In essence, the city was determined to wring money out of the APD by any means necessary.

For my entire tenure as a reporter in Atlanta—14 years of covering the city, county and state governments, with some emphasis on the APD and City Hall—I have seen how the mayor, whether Campbell or Franklin, has used the APD to balance the city’s budget. The nips and tucks and cuts are carried out regardless of the impact on the department.

The department, Kreher explained to the council, suffers a staggering 10.7 percent attrition rate.

“Of those leaving, 50 percent had less than five years on the force,” he said.

Mayor Franklin has cut 85 unfilled positions from the APD so that she could make the department eligible for a federal grant that can only be used by fully-staffed police forces. In the meantime, the APD remains woefully understaffed, its officers spread dangerously thin, with an uncertain future and a City Hall that has shown over and over again that it has no respect for the police and the absolutely necessary job they do.

As bad as the officers have it, the effect is felt even more keenly among the city’s residents.

“There’s not a day that goes by that I don’t have to pull two or three cars from the beats,” Kreher told the council, “because I just don’t have the officers. So, when you have someone calling because their house is broken into, it takes longer to respond. I don’t have to tell you what the response time looks like. Let’s fill every single beat car before we fill mounted patrols and foot patrols. I am tired of my beat officers going out on the streets without enough protection. You want neighborhood policing, but we have so few officers that they are too busy going from call to call to call to get to know the neighborhoods.”

An officer can’t finish a report before he’s being pushed by dispatch to another call, he said.

“And you all say how much you support the police and you care about crime, but I haven’t seen one of you out there riding with the police officers in my zone—you could see for yourself,” Kreher told the council.  

Councilwoman Moore interjected: “I think there is some credit that can be given [to the Franklin administration]…”

To which Kreher replied, “Thank you for giving our money back to us,” referring to the, hopefully, impending end of the furloughs.

“If you’re going to be smart,” Moore retorted, pointing out that the officers could help themselves and the city by writing more traffic tickets.

Moore was not alone. Councilman James Maddox, Councilman C.T. Martin, and Councilman Ceasar Mitchell spoke up for the concept.

“You’re telling a sergeant in the police department to go find you some money?” Kreher asked Mitchell incredulously.

The idea that the police must somehow support themselves and the city by writing tickets was bandied about among the council as though such a thing is ethical. It is not. Where I come from, cities that rely on traffic tickets to support themselves are called speed traps, and cities that use their police to squeeze the citizens for money are known throughout the world as corrupt stinking hellholes. Khartoum comes to mind.

And yet, the idea that the function of the police is to generate revenue for the city enjoys quite a bit of support on the council of an American city that ought to know better. And so, the picture of Atlanta that emerges from yesterday’s budget meeting is one of a city that places its faith in a federal grant to hire more police officers—a grant it may or may not get; a city that hopes to build its budget by using police officers in the same way medieval English kings used their sheriffs to force money from the pockets of the citizenry; a city where there are not enough police to begin with; a city where crime is ever more brazen and violent with each passing day; a city where bloviating ideologues like Councilman Martin, when faced with a budget concept they don’t  understand, i.e. a budget in which expenses do not exceed revenues, screams racism because the president of a police union is white, although the union itself is made up of a diverse body of officers.

Mark Lawson, the former IBPO president, who is black, is very supportive of Kreher, who is white, and the union. He sat behind me at the meeting yesterday and made his irritation with Martin known. “He is talking to a generation of officers who have no connection to the civil rights era,” Lawson told me. “They are about their money. What he is saying is just a distraction from the real issues.”

Like so many other distractions the council conjures up.

For me, because of the story I just did about how the city neglects the medical responsibilities of police officers injured in the line of duty, there was an infuriating undercurrent to the proceedings.

Kreher probably felt it more than I did.

“And this latest fiasco with the disabled officers,” he said shaking his head, “These five officers were injured in the line of duty…I want to beat her [Mayor Franklin] in the head with a baseball bat sometimes when I think about it. I cannot believe Mayor Franklin’s administration would allow this to happen. This administration should be ashamed of itself.”

I don’t know what kind of hay will be made out of the baseball bat comment, but let’s face it:  Anyone who’s spent anytime at City Hall is bound to feel the same way, and not just about Mayor Franklin. I could have sworn I saw a Rawlings logo on some of the council members’ foreheads.


Rate this article:


HELL YEAH!!!

Often the Council hints at maintaining order as if they can snap their finger and have somebody removed from the discussion. What are they going to do when all of Public Safety in audience and there isn't anybody left to enforce their decree.

Howard Shook had the audacity to tell people not to clap at the Public Hearing on the Budget. He should be clapping for every citizen that doesn't rip him from his post.

If the Council and the Mayor aren't seeing State assistance as the ONLY option we have left they they are wasting all of our time and money.

EVERY MAJOR CITY TAXES OUTSIDE WORKERS TO COVER SERVICES PROVIDED WITHIN. WE GET 0 RELIEF.

How can the State ignore what is going on here?

Atlanta if this Council doesn't kick down the door of the Golden Dome then we are gonna have to do it ourselves.


Here's and idea to save some money:

If we aren't going to get any relief then we should IMMEDIATELY cease all services for State Agencies and dump our trash on the lawn of the Capitol.

Turner
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 9:53 AM



You're a sick, sick person if you think the comment about the baseball bat is ok.

Kreher should resign from his union post and maybe from his job. How can anyone make a comment like and not face consequences. If you made a comment like that against the president you would be in jail.

How embarrassing.

Andre
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 10:17 AM



Andre I think you are reaching a bit on this one.

Did you see the news report where one of the Officers was waiting for 8 days for OXYGEN? Is that not knowingly doing harm?

Neither the officer's or Stephanie's comments would be a crime against the President.

It's the difference between saying you want to and are going to.

ie: "That the person understood and meant the words he used as a true threat"

I think you need to turn your Fascism knob down a bit.

Turner
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 11:05 AM



I disagree. Crazy things happen every day. Have you every seen the parliament in Asia fight in the middle of a session? Or how about defendants shoot and kill judges during a trial? Or how about City councilmembers who are killed in City Hall by one of their colleagues?

You can’t let people just run wild in public forums. Emotions tend to get the best of them. Kreher went way overboard here. Stephanie’s comments above are no better. She shouldn’t be co-signing these statements, because that may exacerbate the situation.

And I believe you’re wrong about the president. If you made a comment like this about Obama in a public forum, the secret service would be at your door.

Andre
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 12:13 PM



Andre I have no doubt they would be at my door but they would be wasting your money investigating something that wasn't an actual threat.

ACCORDING TO THE LAW

I think his words were poorly chosen but neither you, nor I, nor the Mayor have met the Officers who are being neglected.

Stephanie and Mr. Kreher have.

I could just as easily say that you are endorsing the behavior of somebody who mistreats crippled Police Officers who have been maimed protecting your rights. You haven't even registered a comment on the subject matter.

How do you explain yourself there?

Which action is more deplorable? Neglecting our fallen and wounded protectors or speaking out against it.

Which one is more American?

Turner
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 1:10 PM



So now you are defending his comments, because of his stance on the worker’s comp issue? Should we allow people to make, what you call idle, threats at public officials because they disagree with them? Should water customers be allowed to threaten the mayor, or any other public officials, because their water bill are wrong? I think not. His was dead wrong with his comments and should be held accountable. Stephanie is just as wrong with her comments above as well and should be held accountable.

If the allegations these officers are making are true, then the city should hold the insurance company’s feet to the fire and make them change their policies.

I guess this is a situation where outsourcing didn’t work. Outsourcing everything in govt is not the answer despite calls to do so by the Sunday Paper and others.

Andre
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 1:24 PM



I'm saying I don't know what I would do or say if my friends and family were being treated the way that these Officers have been.

And the answer to your question is simple.

We should allow people to do everything that is within their rights to do.

Turner
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 1:52 PM



The Sunday Paper has never made any call to outsource anything. As for my comments, I stand by them. I hold myself accountable and I don't regret one thing I have said on this matter. I also firmly support Sgt. Scott Kreher's right to express his frustration which was clearly an expression rather than a threat since he said "I WANT...when I think about it"

Andre, you are as guilty as the council members of blowing that comment out of proportion so that you can avoid the far more damning topic of how the city treats its disabled officers.

Incidentally, it is a city employee, Mickey Walker, who directs the insurance company in its decisions and not the other way around.

--Stephanie Ramage

Stephanie Ramage
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 1:54 PM



I don't know what I would do either. However, I am not within my rights to physically threaten a public official. Whether or not he will act on the threat is beside the point. The threat crossed the line and should be dealt with by the proper authorities.
Just to be clear, if these allegations against the insurance company are true then the city should deal with it. There is no excuse withholding medical care from anyone, especially police officers injured in the line of duty.

The sad thing is Kreher has taken spotlight off the issue and onto himself. For the rest of this budget cycle this comment will be held over his head.

Andre
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 2:02 PM



I'm not blowing anything out of proportion. I wouldn't want anyone to insinuate, express, or threaten to hit me in the head with a baseball bat. I doubt you would either.

There is no excuse and your editors should be ashamed for publishing your reckless statements above.

But, you don't even live in Atlanta, so what do you care anyway.

Andre
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 2:10 PM



Please read and understand the law.

=============================

THREATS AGAINST PRESIDENT - 18 USC 871, makes it a Federal crime or offense for anyone to willfully make a true threat to injure or kill the President of the United States.

A person can be found guilty of that offense only if all of the following facts are proved beyond a reasonable doubt:

First: That the person uttered words alleged to be the threat against the President;

Second: That the person understood and meant the words he used as a true threat; and

Third: That the person uttered the words knowingly and willfully.

A "threat" is a statement expressing an intention to kill or injure the President; and a "true threat" means a serious threat as distinguished from words used as mere political argument, idle or careless talk, or something said in a joking manner.

==============================


Exactly what happened is explicitly explained in the last paragraph of the Ordinance. This is why we have them. Your argument holds no water legally. You are mistaken.

Turner
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 2:17 PM



How do you know the officers intentions? I sure as hell don't. I would hate to be the person on the other end of the threat wondering whether or not it is true.

I get your point and you're right about it probably not being a crime. Nonetheless, these types of things aren't expected from police officers or other public officials.

In this day and age, you never know what people may do. I say we err on the side of caution and treat comments like these seriously.

Andre
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 2:36 PM



I am Sgt Ryan Phinney, one of the officers mentioned in the article. I felt it necessary to comment. The City of Atlanta is Self-insured. There is no third party company being outsourced to manage these affairs for the City of Atlanta. They merely receive information and cut checks as directed by the City of Atlanta. Decisions are made by Mickey Walker, an employee of the City of Atlanta. Further, due to spatial constraints, Ms. Ramage was not able to include a full list of the actions. However, I can assure you that I have not had a single necessary medical treatment over the last year and a half that has not been delayed until imminent judicial action compelled the City of Atlanta to approve it.

In point of fact, if I was a convicted murderer, I would receive timely and adequate medical care AND adequate housing paid for by the taxpayers, as a matter of law. But, being a police officer injured in the line of duty, I receive nothing but neglect and scorn until judicial action compels the minimum care required by the law.

You are outraged at Sgt. Kreher's comments, but you have the luxury of not seeing first hand the anguish and frustration he has seen perpetrated upon the lives of his brother officers, and also the effect on those officers' families. He sees us and knows in his heart, "There but for the grace of God, go I." It could happen to any active police officer at any time, and eventually "will" happen to one or more of them. We learn to put our lives on the line for each other, and that is so ingrained in him that he cannot help but react in frustration to a situation that has been morally repugnant for over 3 years and countless attempts to resolve prior to any publicity or public scrutiny, and he also knows that any day now one of us may die due to neglected medical care which the City has been well aware of now for over a year, and continues to practice without any change whatsoever.

He expressed what he felt. It was an emotional outburst. I am sure you have never had one, but those of us that are human occasionally do. Had he acted, then he would have been wrong. Had he made any substantial plan to carry out his "feelings," he would have been wrong. However, what he did was express an emotion in a country where I spent 4 years as an Infantryman in the United States Army to ensure held the freedom of speech and expression as always protected for every individual. Further, he apologized for the outburst and his lack of control of it.

The City council wants cops to write more tickets? And who will be protecting the citizens of Atlanta from violent crime while the few officers working to fulfill their duty are relegated to traffic enforcement? Do you think your City Councilmen or Mayor will strap on a badge and gun and go out to face violent offenders to protect their constituency? Or perhaps they'll just collect the revenue from the Traffic Court and turn a blind eye on the citizens, the same way they turned a blind eye on their police force.

These are YOUR elected representatives, and their callousness regarding the welfare of their constituency seems shocking to me. But then, they already let me know years ago that I didn't matter to them...

Ryan
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 4:08 PM



He won't respond.

It pains me to see what an eloquent writer you have become Sgt Phinney. It pains me to know what we have become.

You can see it over at the AJC where they whored out the headline and continue the neglect by omitting the latter half of Officer Kreher's statement.

They site the complaint as "Workers Comp" related which is hardly the way that I would describe your condition.

The largest quote is given from the Mayor's Office who didn't even bother to get her on the phone for comment before they spewed it out on their site.

Shame on you Eric Stirgus. I hope you are reading and feel like a complete asshole. And shame on you AJC for shoving a wedge between the Police anybody who read that trash headline and didn't have the time in their day to find out what it was about.

You made Atlanta a little more dangerous today for your failing publication. You and the Mayor have a lot in common, you both feed off the Police to save your own ASSES.

WHERE IS YOUR APOLOGY?

I would like to see the Police Department at the next budget meeting and I'd like the group attending to be representative of the individuals that make it up. This rift that has been created by the utter lack of resources and lack of leadership is pitting the people against you guys and I feel like there are voices that aren't being heard withing the department. (until now and it's good to hear them)

Forget the officials and the lawyers and just go on record and let us know what we need to do. Bring questions for the Council Members and let the people hear how they are responding to them even if you've asked a thousand times.

I don't know what struggles you guys are having internally but I KNOW they must be ripping yall apart. You have GOT to share that burden and the only way I know to do that is by telling the people about it, in your own words.

We know it's bad. The people who are going to decide this election know it's not your fault. We need to all focus on the solution and direct our energies towards it.

Thank you for serving this City. I'll see you June 4th @ 9am. We don't need the bats.....yet.

Turner
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 5:13 PM



A police officer threatening physical violence on anybody, much less an elected official during a public meeting, is wrong. Police officers are supposed to keep the peace, not incite violence. As a police officer, I am sure you have seen situations escalate dramatically. A person getting killed over a $10 dice game is not unheard of, etc.

Yes it may have been an outburst, but it crossed the line. If I was the mayor a simple “I’m sorry” wouldn’t be sufficient. Excusing his comments, because of the emotional nature of the issue is short sighted and reckless. Maybe somebody acts on their frustrations the next time. Will “I’m sorry” make that official’s family feel any better when their loved one is hurt? I doubt it.

If the City is systematically doing what you allege then it is unconscionable. Everybody in America deserves healthcare. I believe the City should go over and above to provide benefits for police officers who are injured in the line of duty. If they are not doing so, than clearly something is seriously wrong. However, that still does not excuse Kreher’s comments.

I still think he should resign. I just Goggled this issue and there are over 100 articles in newspaper’s across the nation about these comments. Instead of the story being about your predicament, they’re about this bone-headed union leader who has embarrassed himself, his union, and the APD.

Andre
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 5:23 PM



Wow, you are a much bigger prick than I gave you credit for Andre.

If we all bowed down to authority we wouldn't have this country.

I doubt I'll be seeing you at the meeting. You better pray to god that you never get behind the 8 ball in your life cause you aren't gonna have a clue what to do and nobody is going to be there to help you.

Your post is the real tragedy in this story.

Turner
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 6:07 PM



Mayor Franklin was not present, and Sgt. Kreher's comment was not a threat. It was obviously a euphemism to express his own emotional frustration, and he recognized it as inappropriate and regrettable, hence his apology. Further, he obviously doesn't want the outburst accepted, or he wouldn't have apologized for it. Finally, as to firing him, I think the Mayor should be far more concerned with retaining all of her remaining officers that are selfless enough to continue to risk themselves on a daily basis considering their knowledge of what they can expect should they get injured and not have the good grace, in City Hall's eyes, to die simultaneously.

They are, indeed, doing what has been alleged, and they have acted in a manner which leaves no doubt as to their intent to continue in the same manner. The Mayor's office has stated, in response to our complaints, that City Employees are following official City Policy in regards to us. In short, while they know exactly what has been done, and have acknowledged the facts as reported to them, they have informed us that these actions are public policy and that no error or wrongdoing has occurred. Please refer to Stephanie Ramage's original article for the Q&A.

As to the publicity, I noticed that you, yourself, did not respond or comment to the original report, yet you were quick to respond to Sgt. Kreher's comment. Much like most of the publicity generated, it was only after Sgt, Kreher made his excited utterance that you opined on the situation. You think his comments have drawn attention away from our problems, while in point of fact, there obviously was not enough attention to be drawn away. This situation has become publicly known in the last few days, while we have been neglected for the last several years.

I do not know you, so cannot comment, however I can reflect on Sgt. Kreher, a man who has demonstrated his devotion to his fellow human beings every day that he makes himself a target of violence, and puts himself between his fellow citizens and the danger of those who prey upon society. He sees a City that he loves enough to willingly risk himself for, being neglected and abandoned by those who are responsible for maintaining and uplifting it. Woe for the citizens of Atlanta if those with the devotion and fortitude actually begin to respond to the neglect and disregard they are repaid for their service.

I saw the Memorial Service which the Mayor attended for officers killed in the line of duty. I and my fellow disabled officers were not invited to attend, or even informed of the service. I heard, as I am sure Sgt. Kreher did, the Mayor's words of praise and appreciation for the sacrifice these officers made. It is a pity that she does not feel the same appreciation for those officers still alive, most of whom are still serving Atlanta. When you see your fellow officers neglected, you go to the Mayor, expecting that a mistake has been made, that someone has fallen through the crack of decent behavior. What Sgt. Kreher has found is abuse and intentional neglect, and apparently the full intention of continuing the practice for the foreseeable future.

Perhaps the Mayor and the City Council need to ride with their police force, if they aren't too intimidated. I personally have invited any City Employee to come to my house, and use my backup wheelchair for 8 hours, to get a glimpse into the life I have led for the past 20 years. So far, there has been no response. I suppose when one of us eventually dies from neglect, it may prompt Shirley Francklin to say a few stirring phrases, symbolism with no underlying substance, to console our families. Denial of basic medical care *is* intimidation of me and my family, and a definite threat to my life. Mayor Franklin has yet to even offer an apology...

Ryan
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 6:14 PM



I'm a prick for calling out Kreher? Get a grip, Turner.

He was wrong. Period. His comments were way, way, way, out of line.

I don't know how many times I can say that if the city is doing this then they are wrong too.

Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. Threatening somebody is not.

I frankly didn't read Stephanie's story because she has no credibility with me. Her facts are often wrong and I don't trust her content.

Andre
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 6:49 PM



That's libel Andre. My facts are not "often wrong." Since it's a libelous statement I can remove it. Shall I, or do you want me to respect your freedom of speech? Should I call my lawyer now and pull your email info from our database? How far do you want to take this argument that you can libel me but Kreher can't express his anger?

Stephanie Ramage
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 6:55 PM



Oh wait, there is a difference between you and Kreher. He stands up in front of people in person and gives his full name when he comments. Come to think of it, that's the difference between you and everybody else in this--I give my full name, Turner Knapp has given his, Ryan Phinney gave his. Gosh, looks like Andre's the only coward here.

Stephanie Ramage
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 7:02 PM



Andre CLEARLY the bigger injustice is what is happening to these Officers. If they wait for the process you think is out there protecting you THEY DIE. They don't have time to wait till everybody gets free health care. Jesus. I bet you aren't a day over 30.

I promise you the Mayor is more worried about this story going nationwide than the Officer who is try to save his fellow Officer's lives. Not to mention his is the only apology that will register.

If you came out from under your rock you would realize we can't afford to lose another Cop. You are nothing more than a troll who admits his ignorance.


Troll: someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

(by the way I would put you in the irrelevant category)

Turner
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 7:34 PM



Ignore Andre and everything he says. He is a part of problem with this City. We have brought the problems with this department to the attention of the citizens, the council, the chief, the mayor since before I became an Officer (9 1/2 years ago). NO ONE CARES! I love working in the City, I believe I can actually make a difference working here where there is so much crime. Make no mistake, the Officers of this department work hard in spite of the fact that no one cares how hard we work or how safe we make this City. I personally have tried to explain my feelings to the council via emails several times. You know what happened? They tried to find a way to get me in trouble for voicing facts that everyone already knows about but wants to ignore when the email went public. You can only bang your head against the wall so many times before you realize no one is listening. So Andre, if you live in the City, good for you. You and every other citizen who do nothing but stand by and watch instead of stepping up and demanding your elected officials do the right thing and take the necessary steps to make this City a safe and great place to live, work, and visit get just what you deserve. The article about these Officers who are true heroes should make you and everyone else sick to your stomachs. Yet obviously this administration not only knows about the situation, but condones the actions. Where is your outrage over that? You have none because you don't really care, that is.....not until you need us, then you will yell and complain about how long it took us to get there and where were we when you needed us? So stand up and demand your elected officials do right by those who put thier lives on the line for you and everyone else regardless of how we are treated or thought of, or stop whining. I'm sure the mayor and Sgt. Kreher will have a discussion concerning his words, let her decide how to handle it.

rob
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 8:53 PM



Wow, check out all the personal attacks. If that's not the pot calling the kettle black. Pretty funny.

Stephanie, the defense against libel is the truth. Thus, do what you want. I'm not scared. Your thin skin reminds me of the mayor.

Kreher can express his anger. Even he admits his statements were wrong. Every newspaper in the country is covering this story. Why? Because his statements were so outrageous.

I post on this blog because I want anyone who reads these crazy stories to have an alternative point of view to consider.

I don't consider my comments irrelevant. Rather they're right on point. Kreher should resign for his comments and the city should correct the issue with the disabled officers.

Andre
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 8:59 PM



Thanks for your service Rob. Although I have experienced racial profiling and harrassment by the police all my life, I respect police officers and the work they do.

If these allegations are true claimed by these officers, I am outraged. I've expressed that several times in this blog. However, everyone seems to ignore those comments.

Andre
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 9:11 PM



Andre,

Cite the errors or don't bother bringing them up. If you say I'm wrong point it out. But you better have a high enough count to justify using the word "often" as compared with the number of stories I write. We call it a batting average. So stop standing there swinging your bat at nothing and cite the errors. Then tot up the number of stories and columns I've done. Come on, Andre, let's rumble. If you say I'm "often" wrong you'd better back it up. I have made some errors, but not many. The people I work with know how uptight I am about fact-checking. So bring it.
The point is that you are hiding behind anonymity to say outrageous things about a police officer whom you say said an outrageous thing. Are you unaware of your hypocrisy?

Stephanie Ramage
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 10:02 PM



I failed to glean your outrage from your opening statement Andre.

"You're a sick, sick person if you think the comment about the baseball bat is ok.

Kreher should resign from his union post and maybe from his job. How can anyone make a comment like and not face consequences. If you made a comment like that against the president you would be in jail.

How embarrassing."

You also demonstrated that you don't know the law. Then you admitted you didn't read the article which also demonstrates that you don't know what you are talking about, literally.

You have dismissed every article that Stephanie has written about the Mayor. Then you later admit that it might be possible that she has done things that didn't help the city.

You spout of things that you think have happened with police but are too lazy to even cite one specific example further spreading your plague of misinformation.

It shouldn't require a disabled police officer to come on here and speak politely and intelligently to you for you to change your tune. You don't even give the discussion the respect of reading the presentation and researching the facts to prepare an educated response.

He has been dealing with this for 20 years you have given it 5 minutes thought. You think any officer reading what you wrote is going to feel anything when you thank them for their service after all of your statements have been refuted.

You are the only threat here because you are lazy and ignorant by your own admission. What you don't realize is that we have all been using you as a sounding board for the greater issue. You have not garnered any support for your argument, however, a mountain of support for Stephanie's claims is adding up every time you open your mouth.

So thank you for your service to this cause.

You don't even know you are your own worst enemy.

Turner
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 10:28 PM



"Although I have experienced racial profiling and harrassment by the police all my life..."

Ct Martin?? Is that you???

"If these allegations are true.."

You begin every sentence referring to the mistreated officers as if you doubt what they're saying.

So since you believe so strongly that Sgt Kreher should resign for an emotional COMMENT he made that is being completely taken out of context, should the mayor resign for her blatant lack of ACTION in regards to our disabled officers? Why arent you demanding her job??

will
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 10:36 PM



It's funny that every time someone calls out a reporter on a blog, the reporter uses the anonymous card. I see that over and over again. It's almost as bad as using the race card.

People use blogs to say things they wouldn't normally say. I admit that. However, to attack every critic of your writing is pretty lame. “Let’s Rumble”? Grow up please.

In any event, I thought everybody on here is known by their first name. Why should I be treated any different?

I just found this B-team weekly a little while ago, so I’m not familiar with the depth of your work Stephanie. However, since I became a fan I have noticed a few “errors” that you used to make your point.

First, in a recent column you were comparing the number of police officers in the Franklin Admin to the Campbell Admin. In Franklin’s number you deducted the airport police officers, but in Campbell’s number you included them. This was done, I presume, to limit the increase in officers under Franklin.

Second, in your column about Kasim Reed you incorrectly wrote that he said “the mayor needs to LEAVE” the discussion about the size of the police force. Later, you corrected the article to say “the mayor needs to LEAD” the discussion. Big difference Stephanie. I know your defense will be that you corrected yourself, but what about those readers who read the print version or those who are not likely to read an online story they have already read before?

I’m sure there are more, but those are the two of the errors I can remember reading in my short time reading this minor league weekly.

I may be a hypocrite and I accept that, but I feel the need to voice the opinion of the majority of Atlantans. If you remember, in Mary Norwood latest poll, only 17% of Atlantans thought the mayor was doing a bad job. Furthermore, she had an approval rating over 70%.

I’ve mentioned these statistics before on this blog, because I think it’s important to point out you and some of the other commenters on this blog are in the minority with your opinion of the mayor.

Andre
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 11:01 PM



Will / Turner,

Sorry, if I don't believe everything I read in this weekly or others, but I don’t. I’ve learned to think like this over years and years of training. Turner, you commented on a recent post here that “like most people, I have to see it for myself”, or something to that effect. I’m the same way. Newspapers and the media in general, misreport the news so often that it’s hard for me to believe anything at first blush.

I may be my own worst enemy, true. But, I’m not afraid to debate and try to make my point. Yeah, I take cheap shots like anybody else on here, like when Stephanie said I must be “smoking crack”. Not your usual comment from a respectable reporter, but whatever.

I plan to take your cheap shots and continue voicing my opinion, as I’m sure you do.

You can’t shout me down and can’t run me off. I’m not built like that.

Andre
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 11:12 PM



Andre,

Since I have no idea who you are, you are as likely to be on crack as not.
In the "short time"? Speaking of errors--Andre, I did a search and you've been commenting for about three months. You've been commenting since March. Did you realize that? Also, I corrected an error in the Kasim column that was not my error. Kasim blames his cell phone. "How will people who read the print version know?" You don't read many papers, do you? There's a section for corrections in the letters to the editor. Actually, I did not include the airport numbers. I was referring only to sworn police officers.
So, let's just review, shall we? You don't read the story to which the blog refers, but you say that it's wrong. You admit that you don't read my stories very much but, according to you, I'm "often wrong." You're a fan of Shirley Franklin's, so you always find fault with my negative comments about her (although you seldom read my stuff). Andre, are you quite sure you don't want to rumble? I meant the online, debate kind, but I think perhaps in you were hoping I was referring to the old beat you down kind. You probably thought you'd fare better there. I don't know, maybe you would, but that's not what we do here in this forum.
No one's trying to run you off. Don't be silly. You're the best thing that could possibly happen to the comment count. You have almost single handedly boosted the prominence of this blog far above anything it would have earned otherwise. I should thank you.
But, you owe the officers reading this, and especially Sgt. Phinney, an apology. Do that and you can stay and play, but I have better things to do. Good night.

Stephanie Ramage
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 11:31 PM



Sgt. Phinney and any other officers who are reading this blog, I apologize. If I said anything to offend you, I sincerely apologize. I mean that.

Stephanie, while I obviously didn’t mean to, I’m glad I’ve helped your career. Great. We all want that with our careers.

Hopefully, we can all agree to play fair now. No cheap shots and no personal attacks. That goes for me too.

Andre
Friday, May 22, 2009 at 12:10 AM



Andre if I had to guess you have recently graduated from a prior forum that you spent a few years cutting your teeth on.

I would also guess that it was some sort of 18 - 25 Music industry or some other "younger" oriented topic other than the one we are discussing now.

Then you found yourself getting older than all the other posters and you had mastered every argument because other people formulated it and you got good a regurgitating it over and over again.

But then you got sick of it or people got sick of you so you decided to wipe the slate clean and jump into the big pool less than a year ago. Clean slate, start anew.

That sound about right?

Seriously how old are you? be honest, nobody is going to attack you.

Nobody is attacking you, they are attacking your argument because it's baseless, once again by your own admission. Why shouldn't people defend the truth?

My shots aren't cheap. I have tried to demonstrate to you how I came to my conclusions, everyone has. The point of this game is not to win the argument but fix the problem.

Like I told the Council, "You are majoring on the minors."


Are you 27 maybe 28 years old?

Turner
Friday, May 22, 2009 at 12:22 AM



That was a well thought out mature statement Andre.

Unfortunately I was writing mine when you posted yours and all I was really trying to get you to say is what you said.

Thank you.

You can ignore my prior post. age is no longer relevant. (but how's my aim!)

Turner
Friday, May 22, 2009 at 12:28 AM



Andre, thank you for the apology. Don't worry, I doubt you could imagine an insult or offensive remark that would register with me after all the things I have heard while dealing with my customers (AKA perpetrators).

I respect your right to have an opinion, and to express it freely. That is one of the greatest things about the country in which we live, and I certainly have risked my life to ensure that all of us retain that freedom. I have the honorable discharge hanging on my wall to prove it.

I do, however, question your rush to dismiss Sgt. Kreher for a failure to control his heartfelt emotions for his fellow officers, and the frustration he feels at a City that, while knowing full well what it has done and continues to do, expresses no regret at its actions, and further, by its actions, leaves no doubt of its intent to continue doing so for the future. If everyone were terminated upon their first mistake, Shirley Franklin would be unemployed now. Because ultimately, she bears responsibility for what the City has done to us, and for what the City intends to continue doing to us.

It is not an exaggeration to say that if I were a convicted murderer, I would receive better medical care than I currently do. City officials know this, and yet still turn a blind eye to our plight with a callousness and dismissive attitude that staggers the imagination.Sgt, Kreher, I am sure, felt in his heart that this was a mistake soon to be corrected, and now he has learned that not only was it not a mistake, but it was completely intentional, and done with true malice and forethought. Sgt, Kreher has just felt what I have been feeling for the past three years, and for him it is a very shocking realization.

Ms. Franklin cannot be reelected, and apparently doesn't care what happens to the City now that she cannot run it anymore. I have heard quite enough of her empty words and empty promises.

I cannot help but wonder if she will remain living in Atlanta when she loses her personal security detail from the Police. Then again, I suppose she has the resources to hire private security, which would make her far more privileged than most of her fellow citizens.

At least now, when someone is offered a job with the Atlanta Police, they'll have some idea of the bargain they are making, and the devil offering it...

Ryan
Friday, May 22, 2009 at 11:52 AM



Stephanie - Thank you for helping to bring the plight of these officers to the voting public. I have firsthand knowledge of the reprehensible and obscene manner in which the City of Atlanta has treated these officers. And I would stand shoulder to shoulder with Scott Kreher any day.

The City (Shirley Franklin & Mickey Walker) acts as though these officers are asking for something that isn't theirs by law. The City has a legal responsibility to provide them with medical care and accessible housing, among other things. When they don't do this they are in violation of State Worker's Comp Law which is a crime. When they blatantly and with malice (and they have!) withhold remedy of their rights, those responsible for the actions of the city; which would include Mayor Franklin, should be tryed, convicted and sentenced. But wait ... then they would have better care than they have given these officers.

Andre - My mother once told me that sometimes in order to get a jackass's attention you have to hit them with a 2x4 right between the eyes. What Sgt. Scott Kreher was saying (in my humble opinion) was that he wanted to use a bat to get the mayor's attention and have her act responsibly toward the injured officers. He was saying "LOOK, DAMMIT!! JUST TAKE CARE OF THEM!!" I know this because I have uttered the same words myself for almost 5 years. If you were to see firsthand the treatment these officers have had to endure you'd be swinging your own bat. Why is it that you hold Sgt. Kreher to a standard that you obviously don't hold yourself to. Have you ever spoken words of anger and frustration in the heat of the moment and later regreted the outburst? If you have then you need to cut Sgt. Kreher some slack.

This situation goes much deeper than Sgt. Kreher's comment. Read Sgt. Phinney's comments again, slowly and really think about what he's saying. Do the research before you go off half cocked and shout for someone's removal. That cop just may be the person who saves your neck one day. Be grateful he's still willing to put his life (and body) on the line for you. I know I am!

Anonymous
Friday, May 22, 2009 at 12:58 PM



I don't know what just happened but that anonymous comment is mine!! Me, April.

April
Friday, May 22, 2009 at 1:05 PM



Stephanie I'm a good friend of Turner's and a longtime dj/promoter in this lovely town of ours. My name is Corey Von Waters and I support this article 100%. I actually feel like vomiting right now after reading this, that's how disgusted I am. I've always thought Shirley Franklin was a snake in the grass of the highest order. She has done almost as much damage to this city as Bill Cambell did. I literally cannot wait until she is gone. She has been in hideout mode for a while now and I wonder why......

Corey
Friday, May 22, 2009 at 2:12 PM



I cringe at the thought of what my tax dollars go to every paycheck. Boy Shirley, you sure did have the best actions for the city in mind when you took away revenue with our bar hours, pissed million away on the "ATL" campaign and now I have to hear about this??? Do us all a favor and move the hell away fom our city when you're done as we don't need you stinking up our beutiful town with your dirty politics anymore.

Corey
Friday, May 22, 2009 at 2:19 PM



Whoops!!! Had a couple of spelling mistakes in there guys. Sorry about that.....;)

Corey
Friday, May 22, 2009 at 2:21 PM



i'm in my mid forties and have been involved in politics for most of my life.

I happen to believe this city has thrived because of our leaders not in spite on them.

With that being said, and out of respect for the officers involved, I'm not commenting on this topic anymore even though I disagree with some of the comments.

Andre
Friday, May 22, 2009 at 7:51 PM



Well I guess we know why I didn't become a Cop.


You are plenty old enough to know better then.

Turner
Friday, May 22, 2009 at 8:32 PM



That reminds me.

I hail from Atlanta's undergound music scene. WAY underground if Zone 7 had it's way.

You guys are never going to force us into Underground to clean up the mess you made by the way.

I like the strip mall idea though, cause that's exactly what Buckhead needed. Another Mall. I bet all yalls hotels are screaming bloody murder right about now.

Who needs hotel revenue when you have all that High end shopping in this Economy. Great idea gang. Super. Now you guys don't even have a place to drown your sorrows.

Oh well I guess you could go to Mid Town...woops, my bad you turned that area into a suburb too, an empty one.

I hear Castleberry Hills is nice, better get there before Midnight though.

Oh Wait! I got it. Maybe you could go to Underground. Well you know that's not an option. You idiots completely ruined any chance of that succeeding when you lured all the Clubs into Underground with a false promise to extend the Bar Hours to 6am.

Shame on you Aaron Rents and Howard Shook.

Your area is now 100% devoid of culture and there is no getting it back. You guys will be long gone before anything resembling life returns. Enjoy your common, soul less piece of the city. Message received, I won't be returning.

For everyone else who has a pulse my boys who make up the laptop and guitar trio, Random Rabbit are playing over in Little 5. Come say hello, I'll buy you a brew. Cops welcome.

(no trolls)

Enjoy the weekend whatever you do.

Turner
Friday, May 22, 2009 at 9:29 PM



For those of you familiar with our own Devil's Advocate web troll, Andre.

Hopefully this most recent exercise will help save some breath for those of us in short supply.

Copy and paste into your browser.

http://www.sundaypaper.com/More/Archives/tabid/98/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/4090/THE-POLICE-AND-CITY-HALL.aspx

Turner
Tuesday, May 26, 2009 at 9:15 PM


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